Who will you be voting for this Presidential election?

VERY suspicious indeed to see an anonymous accusation from a decade ago suddenly pop up in the news a week before the election, the perfect amount of time for it to become well known just in time for the election, but with not enough to debunk it if it is false.

If you want to bring someone down with actual evidence or even just a credible story, surely you do it months in advance so that you allow time for your story to be proven true. Last minute muck raking smacks of an attempt to throw shit at the fan and hope people fall for it before the story can be proven exaggerated.

That being said, it does look fairly likely that the accusation came from someone who worked with Boric at some point, and likely based on a real interaction?. The accusation is very vague since the way it’s worded could cover anything from unwanted flirting to a sexual assault.

The truth of the story can’t be known at this point. This should have little or no affect on how anyone votes, unless you want to live in a world where anyone anonymous can make up a lie the week before an election and decide the result.

Looks like Monday at 8pm for the last debate.

I also saw Kast insisting on no tech aides. Is he claiming someone used an earpiece secretly in a previous debate? If not, why would he suddenly bring this up now?

I also saw Kast insisting on no tech aides. Is he claiming someone used an earpiece secretly in a previous debate? If not, why would he suddenly bring this up now?

And/or special high-tech glasses. Obvious reason, to ensure the candidate that can’t put a coherent argument together without “help” crashes.

One week and some hours to go people till the polls open and this poll closes.

VOTE!!!

Well, I thought it was mostly a respectful debate, at least better than what I am used to in US/UK.

That was a difficult debate for Kast. Firstly because it focused on areas where he is perhaps weaker like gay rights. However, he did try in his 1 minute at the end to mention security and terrorism issues that weren´t covered earlier which was a good way to finish. Also no mention of immigration in this debate. Of course, these have been covered extensively in other debates so I am not criticising the media, I am just saying that the lack of coverage of this in the very last debate may not be ideal for Kast. Given that this debate was the last one before the election, and was on earlier in the evening, it may have been viewed by more people.

Second problem for Kast was he had four opponents taking turns to throw punches at him. I guess that is what happens when you come out top of some polls. MEO in particular at this point seems to see his primary role as ensuring Kast doesn´t get elected, rather than trying to get himself elected! I think he would be genuinely happy to lose as long as Kast doesn´t win. Sichel seems to attack Kast as much as if not more than he attacks Boric at this point. Boric also was having a go at Kast a bit, and Provoste is not exactly Kast´s mate either. So Kast spent most of the whole first half of the debate defending himself against attacks, which means he didn´t get time to promote his own program. One of the female presenters I suspect was also not exactly a Kast voter.

Third problem for Kast is that he appears to have been caught on a mistake on his own program. I refer to this part point 385: “todo nueva thermoelectrica que cumpla regulaciones exigentes debera usar carbon de alta calidad y baja humedad”.
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When I read that a few weeks it clearly seems to allow for the possibility, even the likelihood, of new coal plants. It certainly doesn´t state that new plants won´t occur.
That is also how the TV presenter asking the question read it.
However Kast explained that the reference to “nueva thermoelectrica” i.e. new coal plants refers to relatively newly built ones that are already existing, and that he won´t allow any new ones to be built from scratch from now on. I believe I heard laughter from other candidates in the background as he tried to explain his way out of it.
At best, that was a badly worded statement in the program.
More likely, someone else wrote that part of the program for him and he forgot what it said or was himself confused.
Thinking about it, specifically saying that newer plants must be regulated more carefully arguably makes less sense since older tech is more likely to be more polluting. Therefore, Kast seems to have misunderstood his own program, something which he almost seemed to be admitting when he said some words to the effect like “whatever it says there, this is what I am telling you now” (something very roughly like that, as best as I can recollect)
Either way, it does highlight that what I personally think should be a very key issue - the urgent need to shut down coal plants given the climate crisis - is obviously a secondary issue for Kast that he doesn´t think much about.

Good news though in a way, because that means that we know tonight that there will be no more coal plants built whoever wins. So now just a question of how fast they close the existing ones as the only debate left.

I am pleased that Kast seemed to say (if I understand correctly) that if gay marriage was voted for by congress, he wouldn´t try to use his powers to oppose it. This is good, and unless he has said that before and I didn´t realize it, this means that today is arguably the day when marriage equality in Chile became an inevitability. Likely the law will be passed by next year, and marriages will happen by 2023.

It also hopefully reduces the likelihood of Kast being an undemocratic authoritarian strong man President who erodes the norms of democracy like other right wing Presidents have recently done (Bolsonaro, Trump, Boris Johnson, the ones in Hungary and maybe Poland).

I think ever since Sichel had a bad period and fell to 7% in the polls he has recovered and been very steady and has many good fairly centrist or centre right messages as well as liberal social messages that make sense. He actually seems like one of the more balanced candidates at the moment. However, it may be too late since people may still vote Kast to ensure one right wing candidate in the last two, or because they think that only Kast can actually win.

Overall I think MEO lost today. He might stop people voting for Kast, but they are not going to vote for him based on today since he didn´t give them enough reason to do so.

I thought Kast lost today as well. But mostly simply because it is harder to win when you have multiple opponents attacking you from all sides. He was a fraction less measured and composed than other debates.

I thought Sichel won today but it may be too late.

Boric or Provoste didn’t make any mistakes but didn’t offer anything new, so perhaps stayed the same or a slight victory. Provoste was a bit quiet.

Artes, who cares, but he may get slightly more in the final vote than earlier polls simply because any candidate on such a tiny vote share has to gain votes given that he is getting the same exposure as more credible candidates.

When I say some candidates won and others lost I don´t mean that in a big way. No-one totally kicked ass, or totally flunked it. There have been a ton of debates so far and it´s pretty much known by now who is who. I don´t think anyone won or lost more than 2% of the vote today.

The format was terrible. People living in Maipu in a neighborhood where criminal activities run rampant, and inflation is making pan more expensive doesn’t give a S%& about temorelectricas, gay rights. So ridiculous.

It was Kast that pointed out to that female newscaster how privileged they both were and for a moment there was a glimmer of enlightenment in her cuica fem eyes…

Think I disagree with virtually everything you said. Firstly, I have been to Maipu at least 100 times, how many times have you been there? I have walked through it, cycled through it, driven through it. I have never seen a crime occur. I feel safe there. Granted, I was at the Plaza de Maipu in November 2019, and it wasn´t pretty at all what happened there just like what happened elsewhere in Chile. But it´s just a normal neighbourhood, yes there is crime, but nothing is rampant.

Secondly, the pollution from coal plants disproportionately affects poorer people. Not in Maipu as it happens but yes in many places in the country. Who are the people in the zonas de sacrificio? Well, it´s not Vitacura is it that is a zona de sacrificio where children had some days where they coudn´t go to school because of pollution levels. All Chileans will be affected by the effects of climate change like droughts, fires etc, and as usual the poorest will likely be hit hardest. Ask the (not rich) people in Aculeo how their lakeside tourism business is going. Well, the answer is there is no lake there anymore, so not great. It has completely dried up, possibly as a result of climate change caused by coal fired power plants amongst other things.

And finally how can you say that people in Maipu don´t care about gay rights. What about the ones that themselves are gay? Clearly it´s not a top issue right now but to have it being 10% of one of many debates seems reasonable. Probably 5%-10% of people are gay and they deserve to have this discussed.

I do see a possibility that some people view that debate as out of touch journalists talking to out of touch politicians and vote Kast as a result. I´m guessing that he lost more votes than he won today though. But it´s just one debate. Anyway, we´ll find out more next week!

First, I was born in Maipu, and my mom’s parents moved to Maipu in the 60s. They were living in campamentos and then the government gave them departamentos (cuatro alamos).

Secondly, of course, all Chileans will be affected by climate change, I know about lake Aculeo too. in fact lots of places in the world will be affected by it - I’m not denying that, and I do think it’s important to address it.

Lastly, of course, people care about gay rights, and I do apologize for expressing this incorrectly. I’m using the term gay rights in the context that these politicians are bringing it up. But, my point is that if you ask people in the poor parts of the Maipu what’s the most urgent issue that they would like the candidates to address…what do you think they are going to respond?

Saludos! :slight_smile:

Please forgive my curiosity:

When people express mutual friendliness in any possible way, is there any real sense to sign a formal contract documenting this? If some start to express extraordinary love to their home pets, cats and dogs, do we need a contract?

I may continue with further examples of various relationships between beings and things.

As most rivers worldwide either already run dry from overuse or have a very dark perspective as sources of water and energy, and if poor people will be all happy closing the existing “dirty” power plants, where are they going to plug their innumerable electric appliances? Should we welcome “green” nuclear energy in Chile? People (well, not so poor) seem to also be all happy replacing their cars with electric ones, where are they going to plug them?

In the remote past, when heating homes and cooking using wood-stoves, when milking a farting cow, did they have any problem at all? So shouldn’t people think about a bit reducing their greed, and overpopulation, rather than cultivating the said greed more and more, and encouraging population grow paired with the highest levels of consumption (“for this moves the economy forward”)?

ChalkSquire: Thanks for your insights, probably not much else to add to that.

LostFree: I am married but I did it because I was brought up in a society that taught you that marriage is a part of our culture. Thinking about it over the years since from a more intellectual perspective (and especially after reading the novel Jude the Obscure by Thomas Hardy), I became largely a non believer in marriage especially not the “until death to us part” commitment. I see marriage equality as being about equality rather than marriage.

As they shut down the coal plants, they need to build more wind and solar and they certainly will. There is no plan to build nuclear in Chile, but I’m open to it.
For plugging in cars, majority of charging will be done at home. Easy if you live in a house with a car parking space next to the house; needs more work for apartments. But we have decades for the transition.
Agree with you on reducing greed.

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Thank you! Great discussion too.

For plugging in cars, I didn’t mean the location of the socket. I meant the source of energy. The energy required to mine for lithium, and to power the production of the batteries, and then the recycling of the entire “old” cars fleet goes (families keep 2 - 3 cars), then the charging of all these new cars, and then the production of the equipment for solar and wind, and then the construction of new power grids, so all of this is going to be powered from which source?

Hi lostfree, this is a thread about the Presidential election and so it’s reasonable to discuss various relevant topics including climate change. But it feels this discussion is going off topic at this point. Can we wrap it up soon and perhaps come back to this discussion on a different thread after the dust has settled on the first round of the election?

But the basic answer to your question is that all the things you mention will require use of electricity grids (which are a mixture of nuclear, fossil and renewables) and vehicles (mostly fossil fuels) and the economy in general (with a large share of fossil fuels). But remember that while in the future we have to build more electricity grid and battery infrastructure, we require less to build the many components of petrol and diesel car engines that won’t be required any more, less oil tankers, less refineries, less petrol stations. For some reason, people tend to focus on the whole electric car supply chain, but don’t so the same for petrol and diesel cars. According to French scientists, 15% of all the energy gained from oil is the energy used to dig it up in the first place: Oil System Collapsing so Fast it May Derail Renewables, Warn French Government Scientists – Byline Times That probably means 5%-10% of the entire’s world’s energy is being used to dig up oil.

But the overall impact on climate change will still be lower with an electric car, perhaps half as much being typical due to the efficiency of the car and the use of renewables to partially power them. For vehicle manufacture and infrastructure, it is just the same as a conventional car. But once it gets on the road, it is much better.

By far the most interesting election since I arrived in Chile in 2010 - And very difficult to predict.
Especially after the last debate where all teamed up against Kast, including the journalists.
Sichel came back strong, but doubts are appearing in regards to him having had access to the questions beforehand. Furthermore, I think it is frankly disturbing that he has refused to participate in “el candidado” which has been very tough on all candidates so far. My guess is that he is not too keen on having to defend his political and lobbying background.
On the left, I cannot foresee anyone other than Boric winning it - probably by a landslide.

Article from Guardian:

I normally have no problems with The Guardian, but this particular journalist has a very strong bias in all his articles. A shame as it is one of the few newspapers completely without paywalls and thus the “view to world” for quite a few.

I am voting Boric on Sunday because:

1 Climate change

2 Chile needs to raise its taxes to genuinely fund education, health care, pensions etc.

3 I think Boric is the smartest. Both Sichel and Kast are on the record as saying that life begins at conception. This for example is an extremely unscientific position that really should be considered on a par with outright denial of climate change or modern medicine.

Changes are always happening. Seeing clearly how things change is not easy. A true insight into the real causes of the change is much more difficult.

This small community will also unavoidably change, reflecting our society, and unless something goes against the current, this change is foreseeable.

I go against the current all my life, and so the modern medicine acts contrary to how I see naturally healthy way of life. There is only one candidate who promised (at least) to discontinue certain limitations to medical freedom. For me, this statement alone is important. Though, unfortunately, I no longer believe this will materialize.

We are going to continue living through tough times, in either case.

Please vote (here and the physical poll), stuck at 6 votes thus far and this poll closes Sunday morning!!