"Chile requiere mas gobierno", said Bachelet

Every time I resolve to keep quiet for a while on this forum, some new horseshit appears. This article reveals how the government continues to hire shoals of functionaries - at salaries much higher than the private sector.

De cada dos pesos públicos que se entregan a las personas, uno se pierde en burocracia. Eso muestra la captura del Estado por la burocracia funcionaria”.

Pack the administration with well-paid bureaucrats - that’s how corrupt governments purchase loyalty - aka clientelism.

Whereas I agree that this is horrible, this is — sadly — not a new concept. The Chilean gov’t does not even try to hide it anymore. What gets me is that the population here in Chile knows it, and yet do nothing. Does this happen in DC? Absolutely. However, it is not so blatantly obvious and out in the open as it is here. Crazy stuff.

Kast, the only presidential candidate to propose reducing the size of the Chilean State, had to backpedal and apologize when his intention to eliminate the Ministerio de la Mujer was published.

The “woke” left had a field day with that declaration, which probably cost him votes.

Personally, having worked with two minor government agencies in the past, I could see that their main aims were self-perpetuation and power consolidation; addressing the public that they are supposed to serve is the least of their concerns.

CLP 4.4M is less than USD 5k, that’s not a huge salary by any means, 5-10 years ago senior engineers in Nokia in Chile were earning more than that. If you’re just focusing on the salary, for someone with options to work internationally, it’s not a lot. It’s actually my last onshore salary when I worked in Chile. There’s nothing obviously crazy about it.

To move on from that red herring, what’s the diagnosis of Boric’ government’s problems? The direction of a left-wing government is never going to be right for a right-wing anti-vaxxer internet grouping, obviously, but given that it’s what Chile chose, what’s wrong apart from that? Is it a failure of experience? Execution? Something else? Is Bachelet obviously wrong with her diagnosis and could experienced political operators fix it? Just asking…

Peras y Manzanas…Seems to me that you are confusing skilled workers with marketable talents with the mediocrities that abound here, right up to a president who never held a job in his life, until now.(And failed his examen de grado twice) Chile is already seeing a fuga de talentos where the smart people are leaving.

When did you last live here? The continual and serious deterioration of life here isn’t just the opinion of a deluded right-wing anti-vaxxer (where did that come from!). Just look at the opinion polls…

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You used the word “marketable”, and I’m sure you know “peras y manzanas” don’t apply in the market, it’s what you can sell yourself for. I think my point stands, it’s not a huge salary for someone who can sell him/herself on the international market. In fact, if that’s all that’s on offer to fix Chile’s government problems, the talent drain you mention is going to continue. I last lived in Chile in 2015 / 2016, but I doubt that salaries will have fallen by much since then, certainly not in Peso terms. And even that’s not the right measure, it’s what “SPADs” or whatever they call themselves now can get internationally.

I get the buyer’s remorse, but it’s what Chile chose, failed graduation and all, so if you’re there for the long term, you’ve got to live with it. BTW, it’s difficult to decipher what Chile wants, the opinion polls about the constituent assembly, new constitution, social inequality, insecurity, new new constitution are all over the place, totally incoherent and changing over time. I don’t envy any government trying to make sense of it.

And I got the “right-wing anti-vaxxer internet grouping” from my reading of the forum, it’s not about you (are you a grouping?), but since you responded, don’t you feel that the posts referencing “arm spears” and “face nappies” aren’t, well, shameful?

Of course BOTH the left AND the establishment right seem to continue to ignore the historic RECHAZO vote which was not a right or left thing but the non-aligned busy working and honest living people who were forced to come out and finally cancel in a big way their spoiled brat kids and the organized extreme left vote for the new constitution project which was supported by the Foro de São Paulo, UN and the WEF.

And note: this forum has not censored anyone. So if the majority objectively or subjectively sound like conspiracy theorists, right-wingers, anti-vaxers or whatever accurate or inaccurate group labelling determined by one’s personal perception, etc. tough shit.

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You keep framing this discussion from the POV of a nomadic expat employed by a multinational, a lifestyle that the majority don’t have the luxury of sharing. And if things don’t turn out well, you can always go somewhere else…unlike the hapless, and mostly clueless, Chilean voters who now seem to be regretting their choice. So yes, we have to live with that, at least for the time being…but long term the present conditions are unsustainable.

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Errr… you framed the discussion, I responded to it with some arguments, which you keep running away from. And why not come out and call me a “rootless cosmopolitan”? It does sound rather odd on an expat forum to criticize someone for having the “POV of a nomadic expat”.

Most of the expats around here have been here a long time. Others, like yourself have left. Seriously, inform yourself by revisiting Chile. Its not the same country any more, certainly not a better one.

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I have revisited Chile since I lived there, more that once, but that’s not what you asked. Run, run, run away from the arguments… ok, that’s fine, I understand there’s no serious discussion to be had here, it’s an echo-chamber. a sad echo of what we once had, but never mind.

Well, why not post some thoughts of your own, rather than sniping away at mine? We can agree to disagree!

Given a choice between this small “right-wing anti-vaxxer internet echo-chamber” and a heavily moderated board where bright, thinking, intelligent, polite people were banned. Banned for such crimes as just exposing corporate unfair business practices (no matter that already noted by publicly available sources, such as Reuters, etc.). An unfriendly environment, sorry. I would prefer the former.

The 4M is quite a salary, I’d say. I live on $500 - $600 USD monthly (and this includes apartment rent), no more, wear only second-hand clothing from the local flea market, I live not only without a car but stopped using any sort of micros/colectivos as they introduced mandatory masks in transport (as I never used a proper “mask”), buy food at ferias, and am residing in a really questionable neighborhood on a hill here in Valpo. I see, first-hand, how the REAL life in Chile changes. This is a dramatic change.

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It seems to me that right wing, anti-vax and echo chamber are all partially or mostly accurate but are perhaps more observations than criticisms.

This forum didn’t become an echo chamber because people with different opinions were asked to leave or anything like that, the freedom of speech here is indeed high. I don’t think this forum was setup with the intent to be right wing either. It seems to have just happened that way because a few regular posters seem to lean more right than left. Echo chamber is not a criticism of an individual.

My twitter is a left wing echo chamber but as long as I’m aware of the bias and use other sources as well, it isn’t an issue.

I think posting in echo chambers does run the risk of radicalizing your opinions further and causing divisions on society. I seem to recall some studies have shown this effect…

A possible issue is that if this forum is say 3 to 1 or 4 to 1 in favour of right leaning to left leaning it becomes a positive feedback loop where more right wing people are attracted to the forum and left wing people leave.

Too many lurkers, not enough posters is the real issue. And most of the posters are old-timers who migrated from the old Allchile.net forum. Given the events of the last few years, I guess Chile doesn’t attract many English-speaking newcomers these days.

Am I supposed to stop posting because hardly anyone else is presenting alternative viewpoints?

I also have to point out that these supposedly “right-wing” views are now shared by most Chileans, with ever-increasing disapproval ratings for Boric and the PC, and a growing conviction that Chile is heading down a bad road. Pity it took them so long to see their mistake. And hopefully the overwhelming rechazo vote is more than just a temporary setback for the progre elements.

I for one appreciate your posts. I have some ideas on the subject of the government putting all their buddies in well-paid positions, despite their lack of qualifications in many cases. Let me organize my thoughts and I will post something.

Need to post the OECD chart on why objectively Chile executive and legislative salaries are wayyy out of line compared to the OECD northern developed world (ratio between average wage NOT minimum wage vs. those legislative and executive salaries).

I am similarly with Rune on what I see as a very long term self-sponsored expat living like and among the people under the US $1000 threshold.

I will also have to say that I am much more to the right than 21 years ago and it was continual Chile living, eventually hearing the suppressed history of the other side and finally seeing the Chile communist party for the Marxists they truly are where I now understand why they are proscribed along with nazism in a handful of countries.

This post does not count - not detached enough or on the outside to see how all the long termers don’t know what they are talking about.

About forum slant, over the decade and a half of AllChile many also saw a noticeable forum drift left to center to right before it closed. Even admin sounded like a rightist at times.

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Boric defiende designación de Javier Velasco: “El embajador no está por ser mi amigo”

Sure, Boric. We believe you! :rofl:

Gracias Santa Beatriz por favores concedidos.

Just the tip of the iceberg…