Something bad IS already happening to thousands, or hundreds of thousands, or millions, as those who now rule this world are actively doing their life intolerable, to say the least. If they cease to resist, their life will continue to be more and more difficult. Many of them are already tired to the extreme of what is going on.
Yeah COVID was a non-event when it came to the world economy and the fact things almost came to the point of rounding up persons or forcing persons to a final solution for only having a different view when it comes to what happens to their own body was also a non-event.
Another thing is that there is nothing wrong with protests (this is Chile) and the left in Chile have done it many times outside the homes of the âenemyâ and this is never seen in a bad light by the Chile MSM (unabashedly left leaning) whereas how many times have you ever heard this happening to Atria, Jadue, Tellier, Stingo, Jackson, Izkia and co.?
Waiting on Yarzaâs apology.
True. But compare the fuss over this one insignificant incident with what happened in 2019 when Carabineros databases were hacked, and the identities of 29,000 officials was published. Selective outrage, as usual.
I didnât see any condemnation of this at the time, in fact one idiot on the AllChile forum said that it was justified, in the light of the massive (and later proven to be false) torture allegations directed against them.
El fiscal de Alta Complejidad de la FiscalĂa Regional Metropolitana Oriente, Felipe SepĂșlveda, iniciĂł una investigaciĂłn por las amenazas de muerte enviadas al, Mario Rozas, y su nĂșcleo familiar.
But they are only pacos, so this didnât matter. In Chile, even animals have more ârightsâ than they do. 
Back to topic.
"Mira a nuestro Chile hacia dónde estå yendo⊠:)))
Certainly donât agree with the publishing of police details either. I think if those details are shared on this forum I would criticise it as well. But yes letâs stay on topic.
Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what a people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. Men may not get all they pay for in this world; but they must pay for all they get.
- Frederick Douglass
Sadly there is a lot of truth in the Douglas quote and since there is no on-topic discussion to interrupt today we may as well as continue off topic after all.
Other quote from Douglass: âIf there is no struggle, there is no progress.â
People requesting the vote for working classes in the UK got nowhere until they started burning castles/mansions, rioting, and massing threateningly in huge numbers, then they got the vote.
Martin Luther King and others of that time only got civil rights for blacks in the US because they blocked businesses operating, rode on buses that they werenât allowed to, and so on.
The early feminists (UK) spent years (around 1860s-1905) marching peacefully, presenting petitions to Parliament, and getting nowhere. Only when they started interrupting meetings, and eventually even destroying property and so on (there was even a bomb) did this lead to the vote for women in the UK a whole generation ahead of say France and Italy.
Gay rights as well. Stonewall riots.
Colonial powers didnât give up their unjust control of other countries as a general rule until there were threatening protests against them or the powers had just become too weak to maintain so many colonies after WW2.
But in general itâs hard to think of a major social justice agenda in history that was passed purely through peaceful argument and protest, without a law breaking component.
Governments did more in 2020-2022 after XR, Greta in 2018-2020 than they had done before when it was only peaceful protest.
âThere have been many triumphs of justice which are mockeries of law.â is a beautiful quote that I just happened to write down myself while reading the novel The Return of the Native, Thomas Hardy. However I think these are exceptions for special cases and we should mostly respect the law.
I hope it changes and maybe gay marriage being passed in so many countries without much law breaking being involved is a sign of a better future direction where the law breakers are ignored and TVs regularly cover protests in promotion to the number of protestors and not the amount of violence.
But for now itâs still a reality that non-violent law breaking of some kind can draw more positive attention to a cause more than a peaceful protest with more people. I hate that truth, but it is a truth.
But that doesnât make it justified.
I think non-violent law breaking canât be justified for any and all causes, like striking for higher wages, and only for severe injustices like slavery and getting the right to vote for women.
I think it becomes more justified to break the law for a broader cause. Iâm less impressed by people doing it when it is for something which would be a clear benefit for themselves as an individual.
It then becomes a problem that it is subjective what counts as a particularly especially severe injustice. You think COVID restrictions clearly are. I think they clearly arenât.
Your other problem is that there are too many people against you. You need to have have 30%+ in favour and max 50-60% against you before can use law breaking protest to drive the debate, get the numbers to 50/50 and beyond, and win. Thatâs roughly how it went with many of the issues I described above. But you are such a minority in this vaccine debate that law breaking will just get you written off as a minority.
Wow, answers my question. Yeah pure individual benefit, round us up, hold us down, force us, imprison and kill us like we are violent psychopathic criminals if we resist, you deserve it as you are outnumbered and so what, tough shit?
The fact no one in the Chile mass media reported what SHE said and instead focussed reporting on just anti-vax weones morons speaks volumes.
Peace fellow expat, I am done discussing this supposed ânon-issueâ with you that would otherwise flip the shit out of the mainstream media if it concerned any other minority. Actually 1.7 + million is quite not a minority and will grow immensely if a fifth shot is mandated, but who cares.
Who will speak when the fascists/commies/totalitarians come for you?
Rereading the FD quote, it did not talk about violence as the only response, it said âwordsâ and that is where we are at this point of the debate and that is what happened with the social media response.
You talk about law breaking, what law has been broken? A social media post with public available info of a public servant not a private individual, a weak assed gathering in front of the entrance of her condo of casas. In terms of law, all COVID measures are null and void without the Estado de ExcepciĂłn which ended many months ago. Who is breaking the law? And if the âwe know who you are and where you areâ was made concerning any other NON-CRIMINAL issue (BTW THE SHOT IS VOLUNTARY IN CHILE), what would the media response have been?
I canât even believe we have to debate this shit when the rest of the world, including all the countries Chile likes to ape, have dropped the whole COVID scam.
Back on topic, wasnât it Bloomberg that initially said that the New Constitution and Boric were good?
At least they came to their senses but we know how it is with most developed world media when it comes to Chile.
The honest truth: it all started with Bachelet 2 tax and business reforms and greater deficits then continued under Piñeraâs bonos and other subsidies leading to more deficits, then the social crisis happened and investment money began to flee, and continued to flee as Piñera seem to have no control or solution, then the COVID thingy came whose impact is undisputable, then flee more it did with the rise of the commies and the win for a NC, and flee more again after Boricâs win, and flee more again when the horror of the NC circus unfolded, and now everyone holds their breath for September 4 while the dollar creeps up over 900 again possibly nullifying Chile blowing half its USD reserves.
Bottomline: both low to no growth and inflation are and will be worse than if we still had a lame Piñera-type government in power with no CC circus to muck things up.
If any still thinks that you can believe anything from the polls, then have a look at this:
So, 27% of the people asked, claim to have read the entire new constitution. I can tell you that I personally do not know anybody who has read the entire thing (except Mendoza on this forum, who I donât know personally). I find it completely impossible to believe that over a quarter of the population has read it (probably not even 25% of the politicians have read itâŠ). My point is, that Chileans will not tell the truth to a stranger and secondly, these polls are not representative of the population at all.
We will see on Sunday - I think it can go either way, but unfortunately I think it will be a win for apruebo
At least we all get front row seats for this historic moment. One thing I do notice is that Chileans who were RECHAZO earlier on were reluctant to say it publicly for the real possibility of getting cancelled or attacked physically but this fear seems to have evaporated in the last couple of weeks probably due to the Amarillos movement and many old center leftists and social democrats coming out in support of RECHAZO.
That should push Rechazo higher.
I havenât read it thoroughly. I donât have the deep legal, cultural and historical knowledge required to properly evaluate it. But the behaviour of the people attempting to ram apruebo down the Chilean throat is quite enough for me.
As an exercise, I downloaded and compared the current and proposed versions side-by side, and did a word search to spot the major differences.
Just a few instances:
Tribunal Constitucional: 27 Vs 9 (They want to scrap it)
Senado: 149 Vs 3 (They want to scrap it)
Carabineros: 27 Vs 3 (They want to âreformâ them)
Ejercito: 13 Vs 3 (They want to âreformâ them)
Indemnizacion: 15 Vs 5 (Expropriation on their terms)
Derechos: 143 Vs 421 (Utopianism)
Orden Publico: 13 Vs 0 (Not needed in the new âCasa de Todosâ)
Pueblo: 3 Vs 78 (The Chilean people the pols claim to represent)
Donât forget that Josef Stalin produced an exemplary Russian constitution in 1936, at the same time the commies were conducting their murderous purges. Its just a piece of paper!
Police, military and security are a bit of a blind spot for the left. Having read through the constitution to the end, there was very little about any of that stuff.
Split Chile into 12 nations with more rights and separate legal system for indigenous.
No more right to choose medical system via bono.
No more right to choose education via bono.
Military can no longer be called up for internal emergencies (including earthquakes and other disasters).
Police will be modified into a civil police force subject to political control.
No more right for ownership with social housing, only rent to the government.
No more right to your AFP funds.
Expropriation at a price determined by government whim not the market.
Possibility of loss of Chilean territory to neighboring countries via indigenous rights.
Huge expansion of government from a boatload of new positions to public corporations with no plan on how this will be funded.
Issue of loss of water rights and agriculture when it is more important than ever that Chile produces food for itself and the world. This yearâs grain production already less due to terrorism in the south and this under a partial emergency status with troops present but with their hands tied which will no longer be permitted under the NC.
Little possibility to modify the Constitution as it needs indigenous approval among other hurdles.
1 Like
More of the same here: Buenos Aires Times | Worldâs hottest economy goes cold as Chileans run out of money (syndicated from Bloomberg).
1 Like
On a visit to Sodimac just recently, my first in a year, I noticed that their Tool prices have doubled. As well as the inflation, I suspect part of these increases in general are attempts to recover the huge losses sustained by the retail chains during the rioting.
Someone has to pay for the looting and destruction; probably you and me, but try to explain that to an Apruebono.
Civil disorder is also a contributing factor in the hikes in auto insurance costs. Chickens coming home to roost.
Mon Laferte seems like an idiot.
The cost of the supermarket looting was immeasurable but colossal.
At the most basic level you have got insurance premium increases.
But in reality there is a lot more than that.
The way the entire society tolerated the supermarket looting was what helped the criminals move on to vandalism, damaging small business and so on. If society as a whole had given a firm no to the supermarket looting, you wouldnât have ended up with a church on fire. This all then increases the cost of private and public security, takes over the political agenda so other things canât be pursued. Stops foreign investment coming into Chile or even makes local entrepreneurs hesitate. Affects tourism industry.
Wouldnât be surprised if, in an indirect analysis, every $1 of looted product took $2 or $10 or $100 out of the economy.
Mr. Market clearly thinks it will be rechazo.
IPSA up 4.5% today, dollar down
It is like every single opportunity that this administration has to make a decision they choose the wrong one.
We could enter a new golden age if chile just did the exact opposite of anything planned