Locos on the Patio

Chilean Chit-Chat
22

You are free to believe what makes you happy, and of course we tend to emotionally defend the decisions and investments we have made, even when it means attempting to ignore the considerable abuses we have already suffered.

If you wish to believe you are somehow “safe” in Chile then such a position runs contrary to both an objective view of the available data and the perceptions of the lugareños.

But I find it incredulous that someone would believe that Chile is safer than Canada.

(Yes, I still have my British Columbia Services ‘social insurance’ card… just in case. )

23

I haven’t been clear and I apologize. I fear psychosis more than garden variety greed. Opportunistic theft is a pastime in Chile but mass murder, maniacs driving through crowds like what happened in BC in the last couple of days, serial killers, shooters, people being pushed in front of trains or buses, those random acts of violence for violence sake… I fear those much more than theft,

24

Homicides 2023

Chile 6.3 homicides per 100000

Canada 1.94 homicides per 100000

US 5.7 homicides per 100000

Global average homicide rate about 5.8 per 100000

25

I wonder what they are categorizing mass shooters and crowd killings under? Yesterday 11 people were killed in BC by a man driving his car into a crowd. I wonder if it could be under some other category?

I guess it amounts to a gut feeling of being where you are supposed to be

26

Mental illness.

The offender was described as a known mental case. He was a known danger.

Anything Canadian north or east of the Burrard Street Bridge is a known danger.

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Though the Greenies are blaming the vehicle and racism, since a black SUV was involved.

When I lived in BC the only real mental cases were the itinerant Québécois and their problems were attributed to contaminated poutine.

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27

Motor vehicle theft

Canada: 286 per 100000

Chile: 498 per 100000

Rural area crime: UnCat report shows that in a recent 12 month period, 16 percent of rural Chilean homes were victims of robbery.

This despite every rural property in the country keeping an average of 15.6 dogs.

28

At this point one must ask who you are trying to convince. And most rural properties here have a couple of galgos and a miniature terrier. They eat less than other dogs. People here are not rich, maybe that is why I don’t know anyone who has been robbed.

All these stats do not dispel the intuitive sense that I have that life is better here… sure, major dysfunctional when trying to complete projects, but otherwise better than the crumbling sanity and violent mindset of North America. I try to avoid projects and walnuts and cultural insanity.

29

I am not going to convince you of anything, but this virtual tertulia is open to the world, and broadcasts to otherwise reasonable but naive people who might be considering the chronically demonstrated foolishness of relocating here.

I used to help people figure out how to move down here, fill out manifests, to buy property, to find builders, get bank accounts and get their phones legalized, install bars on their windows, and so on. Used to.

“Used to” describes a past habit or state that is no longer true. I don’t do that inbound refugee reception anymore. Now I tell people where to find big cardboard boxes and stout tape and how to get shipping service for a 20-foot container and a connection northbound and yes that’s a nice wooden carving but it will never get past agricultural inspection at a North American port.

And those emigrants, or refugees or whatever, leave stuff that they can’t sell, so I end up with 220VAC appliances and nice wooden carvings and jars of 50-peso coins and other detritus.

And you know what? It turns out that this toy country, this almost uttermost end of the Earth, isn’t a vale of tears after all: nobody ever cried about leaving Chile.

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30

Both can be right. The unique experience of someone in a particular place can be wildly divergent from the statistical norm. My family is one example

We have watched several full gringo families leave Chile and they each had in common alot of the same complaints about cultural/criminal/social problems that we didn’t have at all because we are in a unique place in a unique situation with lowprofile way of living… albeit in the poorest region of the country. Not a single issue with crime or even an accident in almost 9 years.

We have undoubtedly been blessed with our living situation. Feel very safe and if we have to leave…there will certainly be many tears. We have watched and read about the deterioration politically and socially in Chile, but not been hard hit in a really personal way like we know others have.

At this point we would only recommend retirees with fixed income from outside of chile move here. And also only if they want to live a quiet keep to yourself semi-rural mostly independent life with some easy to manage small poulty/livestock on a hobby farm.

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31

I am waiting on the next election as the reality is that Chile is a centralized country and the mentality of people is to be a bit sheepish and to follow the lead of the leader/government (exception, commies and those they brainwash will always be violent and condone violence).

If Kast doesn’t get in, Chile is finished. But my family is here and I will stick it out no matter what but will expand the flee options if things go WAY WAY point of no return.

If he does get in and does what he proposes, there is hope. If he can shut the border and get a handle on violent crime and government corruption, that would be an excellent start. If he can start peeling away the heavy handedness of SII and the financial regulatory authority or at least redirect it from scrutinizing the common people to those who really do deserve it, that glimmer of hope and confidence will grow and capital will come flowing back into Chile.

So Chileans and voting residents, the potential that things can begin to turn the corner is literally in your hand holding that blue ink ballpoint pen in the voting booth.

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32

Well said mem!!!

Seeing that both can be right is a wisdom that comes from a way of seeing. Not all have that wisdom or that capacity to see.

Logic and stats have their limitations, real life does not. Real life has other immeasurable variables, the stuff that we don’t know that we don’t know.

33

Unquestionably, the “rural” landing is what many afuerinos are seeking and it’s possible to find places with low exposure to violent crime, at least initially. And many lugareños are hoping for the same idyllic scene. Many of my chilean friends in the US and those hoping to retire from places like Santiasco and Malparaiso have been in touch over just such hopes.

But the more common experiences for that pastoral dream are these: robbed when your goods arrive at the port, robbed at the bus station trying to get to the rural site, robbed again when you get to your rural site by hooligans ranging from the city 40 km away, robbed by crooked builders and maestros, robbed by chilean “associates,” robbed by crooked attorneys and … and you get the picture. And let’s not forget the legal robbery in the form of fees and such.

Certainly, some people have great tolerance for these conditions. The gauzy hope of survival long enough to have that pica en Flandes can be hard to resist, and typically ameliorates the memory of injuries along the way. But more likely, if you come here, you’re going to bleed. The question is, how much, how frequently, how profoundly.

NB: Poner una pica en Flandes… A splendidly fitting expression, which I learned during the years of privation in Spain and then again heard from one of the bandits here in Chile.

34

Looking back over the past 30 years, I have experienced a lot of of that, particularly from so-called “professionals”, lawyers, accountants,builders etc.

Minor theft has been routine and ongoing.

35

Sorry to hear that Feargle. From your past posts I know your employees have not treated you fairly or honestly. Our friends and acquaintances that have tried to start local businesses or establish business partnerships with local businessea and/or tradespeople largely report the same at some point…and ALL of them have since ragequit and left the country.

This is why I would only suggest retirees move here with fixed income from outside the country. There will still be the occasional need for a lawyer here and there or need to hire someone for a service here and there, but that risk is much more manageable and containable than open ended mid/long term business arrangments…especially when they see you as a “rich gringo” aka plump plum to eventually harvest in one dragged out surprise epic betrayal or a long stream of small mini dips into the cookie jar you don’t notice for a long time.

I hate to paint such a bleak picture and to balance this our family has found individuals that are not like the above described scumbags, to deal with our limited episodic needs, but it wasnt easy. It took a long time to find the diamonds in the rough…and to be honest we didnt find em…we were led to them by recommendation

36

Yeah, that’s another thing.
Being much older, and now with the tendency to “dress down” to where I could be taken for a vago, I am mostly spared the predatory advances of the interesades of either sexes.

Wish I was a rich gringo :roll_eyes:

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37

I avoid “professionals” for that very reason.

I have come to the conclusion after 13 years here that opportunistic theft is the secret national pastime. It is non-discriminatory. They steal from each other and from gringos. The highest joy and most satisfaction comes from stealing from the jefe. Sitcoms and tele-romans and movies always portray the jefe as an a**hole and this is the media way of demonizing the jefe and taking random cultural resentment of life’s sucky circumstances and giving it a direction and outlet.

The theory behind this cultural phenomena is the belief that if you do not respect your property, purse, knapsack, money etc enough to keep eyes on it 24/7 or to keep it under lock and key, immune from theft, you do not deserve this object of value and you do not need it as much as they do. And because they can protect it more, and therefore obviously value it and need it more, they deserve it more.

I learned this when I took my eyes off my backpack in a bus terminal for 10 seconds, to fasten Mom’s seatbelt on the bus. The backpack was on the seat behind. In the 10 seconds I bent over Mom to fasten the seatbelt, it was gone. I applaud the expertise and speed of the thief. My initial anger gave way to a realization that all moral judgements aside, this is how they survived, by the stupidity and inattention of others. There was probably a computer shop within steps of the terminal that hacked it, erased the hard drive and resold it within 24 hours. I lost 10 years of short stories that were not backed up.

I have had petty theft from 2 of the 3 caretaker families. All of them from the same family. The only honest one was the first. The second was a cousin and the third was a brother of the cousin. I am not rich but they stole small amounts they thought I would not miss. I figured, as they were good to the animals and good to me, I could live with this surreptitious skimming. Couple of bales of hay here, dogfood for their pooches, firewood, small tools. I guess I accepted this for the comfort of having reliable caretakers who just had a bad habit.

So living here cost me 10% because of the theft/skimming but I saved 30 to 50% on cost of living, vet bills, property tax, salaries in other countries. I even caught my favorite caretaker, charming, kind, good-natured, loving towards the animals, very empathetic, stealing small amounts of money on video. At first he denied it, and I said, if you aren’t even going to admit it and apologize, I will have to fire you. He admitted it, apologized, wept, promised it would never happen again and we hugged. I really cared for his kind soul inspite of his character flaw. I don’t think he has stolen since but I value his empathy, care of the animals, industriousness and genuine kindness more than his cultural habit. And I like to think he appreciates the second chance. I was once given a second chance, It helped me.

So all judgements aside, morals are a cultural thing. But kindness, empathy and reliability are rare qualities that are more important to me than what we see as moral weakness.

38

Also very lucky here. The two times we needed a layer it was by referral from within my Chilean family. I believe the fees were fair (all direct talks were via Chilean wife) but we did have to pay a gov functionary once about 50 lukas + to move our file to the top of the pile which did in fact work.

Probably been taxi gouged three times, calefont maintenance maestro gouged twice, almost pickpocketed once on the Metro, never had anything stolen except a large carabiner that disappeared hanging from my backpack while at or around the Santiago bus terminal. And if I did have something stolen these two decades plus, they were stuff or amounts so small that I do not recall or miss.

OK, probably jinxed just now.

39

For many, that is the secret weapon — someone equivalent to CL family, sensitive to the local ways of corrupt things. Down through the years it has been my chilenitas that have been most important in keeping me out of deep shite, or at least helping to minimize the damage.

Even so, that is not any real armor, but just a layer that can help against the slings and arrows.

40

Ohhhh, I forgot my biggest pocket hit and it was a PR gringo who scammed me!

This was at the very beginning of my journey in Chilelandia and I lost about 3.5 palos in that tourism venture that failed.

I vowed after that to never partner with anyone in Chile for anything with the only exception being marriage.